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(Last Login: April 24, 2017 12:39 PM) rcb719@verizon.net
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Re:New BOLT+ Dropping MINIs
Apr 20, 2017 at 9:52:24 AM  |  #16

Ok, maybe we are getting somewhere, as I was befuddled by that part of the instructions.  Why am I setting up the bolt as client, client to what?  I thought I needed to set it up as bridge, which I thought was needed to provide the MoCA connectivity for TIVO to the MINIs.  So, I will probably need to do that again.  To answer your question, I started down that path, but it would not complete so assumed an error in instruction, reconnected Ethernet cable, and proceeded with Bolt as bridge, and with both MoCA and Ethernet connected.  I am not currently home, so if I screwed that up, which your question would seem to indicate I did, I will have to redo that when I get home.

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(Last Login: Apr 22, 2017 at 10:59:24 PM) krkaufman
krkaufman
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Apr 20, 2017 at 9:58:14 AM (Updated: Apr 20, 2017 at 11:59:11 AM)  |  #17
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcb719@verizon.net View the original post

In the set up for the system on the BOLT i chose the MoCA + Internet connection and made ths BOLT the bridge. 

Ok, then you *didn't* follow ivory's steps, exactly, since her process would have resulted in the BOLT+ configured as a MoCA Client, not a Bridge, which is what I've been trying to get to the bottom of... but can't seem to get answered: Is the MI424-WR gateway's MoCA LAN enabled? If it is, configuring the BOLT+ as  MoCA bridge is both unnecessary and detrimental to your setup -- and would also explain the earlier issues with Mini connectivity.

 

A simple test... power off the BOLT+ and the Minis. Wait a minute. Power-on one of the Minis (with the BOLT+ remaining off) ... and then test whether the Mini was able to establish a MoCA connection and has Internet access. (It obviously will complain about not being able to connect to its host DVR, but it should still be able to connect to the TiVo service, at least, if it has an Internet connection.)  


edit: p.s. And as confirmation should the test indicate the Mini has Internet connectivity, you can then check the "LAN Coax" LED on the MI424-WR to verify that it is lit, indicating an active MoCA client connection.

 

Oh, also, rather than leaving the BOLT+ powered-off, what you could do is disable MoCA on the BOLT+, switching the BOLT+ to an Ethernet-only network connection to the MI424-WR. Basically, all the same steps as @tivo ivory suggested, except configure the BOLT+ for an Ethernet connection instead of MoCA. ... And then see if any one of the Minis can find a MoCA network.  (Though getting into the MI424-WR's UI to confirm the MoCA LAN setting might be the surest way to check.)

 

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(Last Login: Apr 22, 2017 at 10:59:24 PM) krkaufman
krkaufman
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Apr 20, 2017 at 10:16:41 AM  |  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcb719@verizon.net View the original post

Ok, maybe we are getting somewhere, as I was befuddled by that part of the instructions.  Why am I setting up the bolt as client, client to what?  I thought I needed to set it up as bridge, which I thought was needed to provide the MoCA connectivity for TIVO to the MINIs.  So, I will probably need to do that again.  To answer your question, I started down that path, but it would not complete so assumed an error in instruction, reconnected Ethernet cable, and proceeded with Bolt as bridge, and with both MoCA and Ethernet connected.  I am not currently home, so if I screwed that up, which your question would seem to indicate I did, I will have to redo that when I get home.

Yes, I think I'm starting to get a better understanding of what you were thinking and where some confusion may be coming from.

 

If you need a MoCA network on your coax lines to provide wired network connectivity, then *SOME* device needs to create/establish that MoCA network, bridging between the MoCA/coax segment and the Ethernet LAN. Once the MoCA network is established, MoCA-capable devices can connect to the coax MoCA network as clients.

 

*IF* you have a MoCA-capable TiVo DVR that can be connected to your router via Ethernet, then this DVR can be used to establish the MoCA network and bridge the MoCA/coax network traffic over to the router's Ethernet LAN. In this case, yes, the DVR *must* be connected via Ethernet to the router, since the DVR, as the lone MoCA bridge, is responsible for bridging the MoCA traffic to the router.  However, if a MoCA network is already present on the coax lines, established by some other device, a MoCA-capable TiVo DVR could simply connect via coax as a MoCA client, gaining network and Internet connectivity via the MoCA network (bridged to the router by that "other" device).

 

"Other" means of establishing a MoCA network include:

  • relying on a MoCA-capable gateway's built-in MoCA functionality (e.g. MI424-WR, Quantum G1100)
  • installing a MoCA adapter at the router location, provided a necessary coax connection is available

 

What I've been trying to determine is whether your MI424-WR's built-in "MoCA LAN" functionality is enabled. Because if it is, configuring the BOLT+ as a MoCA bridge will create a conflict and can have negative effects on your network performance.

 

More importantly, based on what I inferred (perhaps mistakenly) from above, if you could use the MI424-WR's built-in MoCA LAN, then you could locate the BOLT+ anywhere else in the house where you simply have a coax connection that connects back to the gateway, configuring the BOLT+ as a MoCA client.

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(Last Login: Apr 22, 2017 at 10:59:24 PM) krkaufman
krkaufman
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Apr 20, 2017 at 10:20:35 AM  |  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcb719@verizon.net View the original post

... I was befuddled by that part of the instructions.  ... I started down that path, but it would not complete so assumed an error in instruction, reconnected Ethernet cable, and proceeded with Bolt as bridge, and with both MoCA and Ethernet connected.

If you attempted the "Set up as Client" steps as instructed by tivo ivory but were unable to establish the MoCA client connection, then it is possible that the MI424-WR's built-in MoCA LAN is disabled (though that would be surprising, since it's enabled by default, I believe).

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(Last Login: April 24, 2017 12:39 PM) rcb719@verizon.net
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Apr 20, 2017 at 10:55:32 AM  |  #20

I will need to check that when I get home, whether or not the MI424-WR MoCA Lan is disabled.  Is that something I can see just by checking the LED lights, or better to try and read that on the network somehow.  And yes, you are correct in your assumption of my thinking, and how I thought i HAD to be set up.  My assumption was split coax at the router (and same location for the BOLT) would provide the router all the provider needed signal for 3Xplay, internet and FiOS TV.  That the coax to the BOLT, or host DVR would provide the bridge/MoCA connectivity throughout the system, and maybe an old assumption, but that the internet connection was needed to provide all the Guide updates for channel content and date and time.

 

I see what you are saying, since MoCA LAN is available via the MI424-WR, i don't need to Ethernet connection between the DVR and MI424-WR, just need it on the coax as a client and the MI424-WR would act as the bridge.

 

I will try again, and this time I will completely run through Ivory's instructions, and see what is happening.  Sorts of answers a little confusion I had when setting up, when it said bridge and client vs host and client.

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(Last Login: April 24, 2017 12:39 PM) rcb719@verizon.net
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Apr 20, 2017 at 11:03:49 AM  |  #21

and forget that first ques, took another look at your pic and see where the LAN Coax LED is.

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(Last Login: April 24, 2017 12:39 PM) rcb719@verizon.net
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Apr 20, 2017 at 11:33:23 AM (Updated: Apr 20, 2017 at 11:35:46 AM)  |  #22

One other question, as I go into the test.  If LAN COAX is not enabled, I should then set up as I was before, correct.  Since there would be no conflict, I would need to use the DVR as the bridge?  Or is there a simple step to enable LAN COAX on the MI424-WR?  Would it really make a difference, is the one preferable to the other?

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(Last Login: Apr 22, 2017 at 10:59:24 PM) krkaufman
krkaufman
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Apr 20, 2017 at 11:34:40 AM (Updated: Apr 20, 2017 at 11:40:13 AM)  |  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcb719@verizon.net View the original post

... since MoCA LAN is available via the MI424-WR, i don't need to Ethernet connection between the DVR and MI424-WR, just need it on the coax as a client and the MI424-WR would act as the bridge.

Correct. *IF* the MoCA LAN is enabled on the MI424-WR...

 

Option 1: the BOLT+ could simply be connected via coax and connect as a MoCA client, same as the Minis; OR...
 

Option 2: you could disable MoCA on the BOLT and connect the BOLT+ with an Ethernet cable, networking the BOLT+ via Ethernet and the Minis via MoCA.

 

... but you would NOT want to connect the BOLT+ via Ethernet and configure the BOLT+ as a MoCA bridge if the MI424-WR is already configured as a MoCA bridge. (Nor would you ever want to connect the Ethernet cable between the BOLT and the router after the BOLT has been configured as a MoCA client, as the same network loop concerns would apply.)

 

As for checking the MI424-WR's MoCA LAN status, the "LAN Coax" LED only lights when a MoCA connection between the MI424 and a MoCA client is active; if the MI424's MoCA LAN is enabled but dormant (i.e. no MoCA clients currently connected via the MI424-WR), the LED will be off. The "simple test" suggestion in post #17 might work, but you could also dig into the MI424-WR's configuration UI to check the setting for the LAN coax component.

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(Last Login: Apr 22, 2017 at 10:59:24 PM) krkaufman
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Apr 20, 2017 at 11:47:32 AM  |  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcb719@verizon.net View the original post

One other question, as I go into the test.  If LAN COAX is not enabled, I should then set up as I was before, correct.  Since there would be no conflict, I would need to use the DVR as the bridge?  Or is there a simple step to enable LAN COAX on the MI424-WR?  Would it really make a difference, is the one preferable to the other?

Yes, if the MI424-WR's MoCA LAN is disabled (i.e. unchecked within the configuration UI), then your original setup (BOLT connected via coax and Ethernet, and configured as the MoCA bridge) is entirely correct.

 

As for preference, mine is to let the gateway handle the MoCA bridging, since it should require/experience fewer reboots than the DVR. As for any bandwidth considerations, it would depend on which Revision of the MI424-WR you have. And, for some, the gateway being able to establish the MoCA network is critical if the MoCA-capable DVR doesn't have Ethernet access at the preferred installation location for the DVR.

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(Last Login: April 24, 2017 12:39 PM) rcb719@verizon.net
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Apr 20, 2017 at 12:34:49 PM  |  #25

cool, totally makes sense now.  will test and post results. 

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(Last Login: April 24, 2017 12:39 PM) rcb719@verizon.net
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Apr 20, 2017 at 6:22:13 PM  |  #26

Confirmed MI424-WR LAN Coax is active.  Did set exactly as Ivory suggested, the Ethernet connection to modem/router is disconnected.  Also did the test suggested by taking DVR out by powering down and was able to connect to Tivo service through the Mini.  I checked the channels, couple high end movies channels, a mid level ESPN channel and a local channel.  Still getting Sig=100 on a couple, 99 on two others, no discernable pattern, and SNR b/n 39-40. 

 

Have checked all three minis, all of which are working well.  This is where I was at same point yesterday, so we'll see how it performs through the evening.  I should know in a few hours, which is when the DVR started going genki, but as noted, the minis all performed fine even though the dvr was out of kilter.

 

Updates to follow.

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(Last Login: Apr 22, 2017 at 10:59:24 PM) krkaufman
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Apr 20, 2017 at 8:25:17 PM (Updated: Apr 20, 2017 at 8:31:24 PM)  |  #27
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcb719@verizon.net View the original post

Confirmed MI424-WR LAN Coax is active.  Did set exactly as Ivory suggested, the Ethernet connection to modem/router is disconnected.  Also did the test suggested by taking DVR out by powering down and was able to connect to Tivo service through the Mini.  

Ok, good; that should wrap the MoCA issue and solves the mystery as to why the Minis were having network connectivity issues when the BOLT+ was *also* connected and configured as a MoCA bridge. (dueling MoCA bridges == bad)



Quote:

Originally Posted by rcb719@verizon.net View the original post

I checked the channels, couple high end movies channels, a mid level ESPN channel and a local channel.  Still getting Sig=100 on a couple, 99 on two others, no discernable pattern, and SNR b/n 39-40. 

 

Have checked all three minis, all of which are working well.  This is where I was at same point yesterday, so we'll see how it performs through the evening.  I should know in a few hours, which is when the DVR started going genki, but as noted, the minis all performed fine even though the dvr was out of kilter.

Signal issues aren't my bag, but I do find it exceedingly odd that you're only seeing the issue through the BOLT+. Since the Minis borrow the BOLT's tuners, they should be exhibiting the same pixelation problems seen on the BOLT if it was a signal issue. Any chance it could be a hinky HDMI cable/connection between the BOLT+ and its display?  (Though I'd expect HDMI to either work or not, rather than pixelate.) Aside from trying a different HDMI cable, is there any way to see if connecting the BOLT+ to a different TV changes the symptoms?

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(Last Login: April 24, 2017 12:39 PM) rcb719@verizon.net
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Apr 21, 2017 at 9:09:24 AM  |  #28

Nah, the MINI issue I am pretty sure was due to me not setting them up properly when I first install of the BOLT.  I just switched their host from Premier to BOLT.  Once I followed Ivory's instructions on Wed night, although not thoroughly on the BOLT side, keeping the 2X MoCA set up, the MINIs I did the complete reset, and they worked well from then on, it was just the BOLT itself  that I was having issues with, but, apparently no more.  I only had one issue last night, when I shut off the TV attached to the BOLT at 6:30P, I left on the MINIs, never had an issue on them.  Turned on the TV connected to BOLT at 7:30P, and received just blue screen, no audio/video.  Did pwr reboot on the BOLT box, and no issues since.  Powered TV up and down a couple times, and again this morning, so far everything looks good, no pixels, blips, interference.  Even going out to apps, which on Wed night really whacked the output, Netflix was pixilation pandemonium, but last night, both Netflix and Amazon Prime Video worked great off the BOLT.

 

In close out of this one, I hope, apologies to Ivory for not following instructions exactly 2 days ago, not sure why I always think I know more, experience has proven me wrong on that account too many times.  And thanks to KRK for sticking in there till I finally got it on  the MoCA network coming off the FiOS modem/router.   Appreciate the patience.  Will let you know if any issues arise, but for short term from last night all looks good.

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(Last Login: Apr 22, 2017 at 10:59:24 PM) krkaufman
krkaufman
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Apr 21, 2017 at 12:51:26 PM (Updated: Apr 21, 2017 at 2:44:32 PM)  |  #29

Well fingers-crossed, then. Good to hear, and enjoy...!!!

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(Last Login: April 24, 2017 12:39 PM) rcb719@verizon.net
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April 24, 2017 8:32 AM  |  #30

Worked fine till about 11P Friday night.  Same issue started up, blips with black screen and interrupted audio.  Checked Signal and SNR, they were 100 and 39-42 respectively.  I added an inline -6db attenuator, rebooted and the system went bonkers.  It was same issue but on steroids, happening much more frequently and longer, made it impossible to watch.  All this same time MINIs are working fine, not any issues on them at all.  Decided to shut it down and pick upthe next morning.  Turned on all TVs, BOLT and three MINIs first thing Sat morning, as it was raining Saturday I was able to keep an eye on them, and all worked throughout the day, and into the night, till I shut them down Saturday night around midnight.  Was able to monitor much less so Sunday, but did not observe any issues, and there were none while I was watching on the BOLT Sunday night for about an hour.  Usually the issue has manifested at night and on higher end channels.  So far, the issue has not returned.  I have no idea what happened between Fri night and Sat morning, and the more interesting question for me, is why there is no impact on the MINIs which receive thier signal from the BOLT which is having issues?  As the SNR is still between 39-41, and SIGNAL is reading 100, I suspect issues will return  and will update if they do.

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